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Death
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New!
NOV-26-06
14:31:45
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Forum: Serious Discussion for Christian Singles
RE: Death - Errors about Death
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Nannette
Female
41-50
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See this lesson on: The Ultimate Deliverance - The Second Coming of Jesus Christ
See this study on Grave Errors about Death
Also Hell-Fire, A Twisted Truth Untangled
Copyright © 2008 AmazingFacts.org
Free Online Bible Study
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New!
NOV-26-06
14:24:1
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Forum: Serious Discussion for Christian Singles
RE: Death - Absent from the Body
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Nannette
Female
41-50
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Please see this Free Bible study in its entirety: Absent From the Body
"Clergy and laity alike have often stumbled over some of the writings of Paul the Apostle. Scattered among the letters which he addressed to the churches are a few verses that almost seem to contradict what he wrote in other epistles. At least they have been interpreted as contradictions. But did the great, spiritual, straight-thinking Paul write confusing things? Or is the contradiction only in the way readers have twisted his words?"
"...Paul positively refuted the idea of an immortal spirit leaving the body at death when he pinpointed the ONLY means of being with the Lord. In 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 he said, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and SO shall we ever be with the Lord."
Please note the significance of that word "SO." It means "in this way," "in this manner," "by this means." "SO," in this manner, by this means, "shall we ever be with the Lord." By describing, without any limitation, the way and means by which we go to be with the Lord, Paul precludes every other means. If there is any other way of getting to be with the Lord, then Paul's language is a stupendous falsehood. If we go to be with the Lord by means of our immortal spirit when we die, then we do not go to be with Him by means of the visible coming of Jesus, the resurrection of the dead and the change of the living. Then Paul's words would not be true. There is no possible way of avoiding this conclusion, except by claiming that the descent of the Lord from heaven, the mighty shout, the trumpet, the resurrection of the dead, and the change of the living, ALL TAKE PLACE WHEN A PERSON DIES, a position too absurd to be considered.
Since Paul himself so carefully defines the manner of going to be with the Lord, why should man try to interpret Philippians 1:23 to mean something contrary to the writer's own explanation? As we have just noted from 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17, Paul knew of only two ways to be with the Lord - by translation or resurrection."
"...Once more we are constrained to ask: When did Paul expect this translation to take place? And when did he anticipate the change from mortality to immortality? He answers: "when Christ, who is our life, shall appear, THEN shall ye also appear with him in glory." Colossians 3:4. When is THEN? At His second Coming. Have these appeared with Him in glory already? No. It will happen THEN, when He shall appear.
John agrees with Paul, "But we know that, WHEN HE SHALL APPEAR, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2. Think for a moment about the implications of that statement. John could not have believed that the righteous dead were already in the presence of the Lord. If so, they were able to see him "as he is" at that very moment, and they would already be changed into the "likeness" of Christ. But he refutes the idea that any have seen him yet and declares unequivocally that it will all happen "when he shall appear."
Finally, let us take note that in case Paul was not permitted to depart this life by translation and had to depart by death, he did not expect to be with Christ until the resurrection. He clarifies this in 2 Timothy 4:6-8: "For I am now ready to be offered, and the time for my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: HENCEFORTH there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me AT THAT DAY: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."
In the clearest possible language, Paul not only explains but emphasizes that his reward will be given at the coming of Christ. Even though his departure in death was "at hand" he did not expect to be with Christ immediately. He expected it "henceforth." The crown of immortality was "laid up for me," he said. He would receive it "in that day" with others who would "love his appearing." Surely those of us living today should anticipate that same glorious appearing when we too shall receive, with Paul, the crown of righteousness which fadeth not away."
Copyright © 2008 AmazingFacts.org
Free Online Bible Study
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New!
NOV-26-06
13:46:39
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Forum: Serious Discussion for Christian Singles
RE: Death
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Eusebius
Male
41-50
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QUESTION
Didn't the thief on the cross go to paradise with Christ the day He died? Luke 23:43
ANSWER
No. In fact, on Sunday morning Jesus said to Mary, "I am not yet ascended to my Father." John 20:17. This shows that Christ did not go to heaven at death. Also note that the punctuation of the Bible is not inspired, but was added by men. The comma in Luke 23:43 should be placed after the words "to day" rather than before, so the passage should read, "Verily I say unto thee to day, shalt thou be with me in paradise." Or, "I'm telling you today--when it seems that I can save no one, when I myself am being crucified as a criminal--I give you the assurance today that you will be with me in paradise." Christ's kingdom is set up at His second coming (Matthew 25:31), and all the righteous of all ages will enter it at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) and not at death.
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I'm going to respond to one item on this erroneous teaching about death regarding Luke 23. Don't be taken in by this nonsense about commas. The original text was written in Greek. The word correctly translated "today" in Luke 23:43 is the Greek word 'semeron' in the manuscripts (Textus Receptus).
"kai lego autos ho Iesous amen lego su semeron meta ego eimi en ho paradeisos"
The phrase erroneously brought into question is 'su semeron meta ego' can be most literally translated as such
-- You (su) today (semeron) with (meta) me (ego) --
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (2Co 5:8 KJV)
Anybody can look these things up. Get a concordance with Hebrew and Greek dictionaries.
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New!
NOV-5-06
22:6:14
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Forum: Serious Discussion for Christian Singles
RE: Death
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Eusebius
Male
41-50
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I'm going to respond to one item on this erroneous teaching about death regarding Luke 23. Don't be taken in by this nonsense about commas. The original text was written in Greek. The word correctly translated "today" in Luke 23:43 is the Greek word 'semeron' in the manuscripts (Textus Receptus).
"kai lego autos ho Iesous amen lego su semeron meta ego eimi en ho paradeisos"
The phrase in erroneously brought into question is 'su semeron meta ego' can be most literally translated as such
-- You (su) today (semeron) with (meta) me (ego) --
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (2Co 5:8 KJV)
Anybody with a modicum of intelligence can look these things up. Get a concordance with Hebrew and Greek dictionaries.
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New!
AUG-13-06
13:36:47
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Forum: Serious Discussion for Christian Singles
RE: Death
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Nannette
Female
41-50
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See this lesson on: Are the Dead Really Dead?
Singin4jc
One should study all scriptures in context, and not just a couple of verses. Scholars know and agree that the punctuation, periods, commas, etc., in scriptures were added upon translation by men, and not inspired.
In answer to this question:
Didn't the thief on the cross go to paradise with Christ the day He died?
Luke 23:43
No. In fact, on Sunday morning Jesus said to Mary, "I am not yet ascended to my Father." John 20:17. This shows that Christ did not go to heaven at death. Also note that the punctuation of the Bible is not inspired, but was added by men. The comma in Luke 23:43 should be placed after the words "to day" rather than before, so the passage should read, "Verily I say unto thee to day, shalt thou be with me in paradise." Or, "I'm telling you today--when it seems that I can save no one, when I myself am being crucified as a criminal--I give you the assurance today that you will be with me in paradise." Christ's kingdom is set up at His second coming (Matthew 25:31), and all the righteous of all ages will enter it at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) and not at death.
You say:
" This is why when Jesus returns, He returns with those who were asleep."
I find nothing in scriptures that indicates Jesus returns with those who are asleep. On the contrary, the Bible says Jesus returns to awaken those who are asleep.
Look at 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
"13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[b]
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words."
You say:
-- "I guess I am concerned with why this is such a big deal to try to prove."
Why will God's people not be deceived?
"They received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11. "If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20.
Answer: God's people will know from their earnest study of His book that the dead are dead, not alive. Spirits of the dead do not exist. Therefore, God's people will reject all miracle workers and teachers who claim to receive special "light" or work miracles by contacting the spirits of the dead. And God's people will likewise reject as dangerous and false all teachings that claim the dead are alive in any form, anywhere.
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Do those who love the Lord believe popular interpretations of scripture, or do they search the scriptures daily to study what is real based on all scriptures?
"The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing. ... Neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6.
Why did the devil lie to Eve about death? Could this subject be more important than many think?
Answer: It is one of the cornerstones of the devil's kingdom. He has worked powerful miracles down through the ages through people who claim to receive their power from the spirits of the dead. (Examples: Magicians of Egypt--Exodus 7:11; Woman of Endor--1 Samuel 28:3-25; Sorcerers--Daniel 2:2; A certain damsel--Acts 16:16-18.)
A Solemn Warning
In the end-time Satan will again use sorcery--as he did in Daniel's day--to deceive the world (Revelation 18:23). Sorcery is a supernatural agency that claims to receive its power and wisdom from the spirits of the dead.
Posing as Jesus' Disciples
Posing as godly loved ones who have died, saintly clergymen who are now dead, Bible prophets, or even the apostles or disciples of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:13), Satan and his angels will deceive billions. Those who believe the dead are alive, in any form, will most assuredly be deceived.
Again, I beg you to actually study all Bible verses in context.... and study this lesson I have provided here.
The Rich Man and Lazarus is a popular teaching, but again, it wrests the scriptures, and one must study them all together.
For serious truth seekers, please study this in light of all truth.
The Rich Man and Lazarus
This lesson begins with this...
"MUCH argument has taken place over whether the words of Jesus in Luke 16: 1931 were intended to be understood literally or as a parable. Some Christians feel that in this story, Jesus was offering His hearers a glimpse of what existence in the afterlife is like. Others, citing numerous passages of Scripture which seem to contradict the portrayal of heaven and hell contained in this passage, feel that Jesus was teaching an altogether different kind of lesson. Unfortunately, many modern religious teachers have isolated the story from its original context and used it as a device for scaring people. Religious "conversions" resulting from a fear of hell as it is depicted in this passage have indeed occurred, but are based on a foundation sorely in need of the strength which comes only from a genuine appreciation of God's character and a proper understanding of Scripture."
So again, I implore you to study this entire lesson...
The Rich Man and Lazarus
God bless you.
Copyright © 2008 AmazingFacts.org
Free Online Bible Study
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